[00:00:00] Libby: Welcome to the Dietitian Boss podcast. I'm Libby Rothschild, creator of Dietitian Boss. After almost four years of sitting in my dimly lit, windowless clinical office, I had enough. I wanted to feel like my work mattered, so I did something about it. I created a [00:00:20] program that empowers dieticians and nutritionists to create their own private practice from scratch, following my proprietary system.
[00:00:27] Libby: Before I did this, I had a private practice of my own while working a full time job, and I learned a lot about building relationships, marketing, and sales, and I'm so excited to be able to share my proprietary framework with [00:00:40] you. Hello and welcome. I'm here today with Taylor Lile. She's a registered dietitian and board certified specialist in sports dietetics with 11 years of sports nutrition experience, working with professional sports, including MLB, NFL, NBA, G League, MILB, and [00:01:00] EIHL.
[00:01:00] Libby: Also with collegiate athletes, the US Army and Gatorade Sports Science Institute. And she's a 2022 World Series champion. Taylor is the CEO of tailored for performance LLC, a company that is passionate about helping athletes attain longevity in their career by improving their performance through [00:01:20] nutrient timing and recovery nutrition.
[00:01:22] Libby: Taylor enjoys spending time with family and friends cooking and traveling the world. You can find Taylor on Instagram @tailoredforperformance. More on the nutrition support and resources Taylor provides can also be found on her website at tayloredforperformance.com. Everything will be listed in today's show notes.[00:01:40]
[00:01:40] Libby: All right, Taylor, I'm happy to have you today on air again, returning to the podcast. I was wondering if you could share what negotiation means to you and why is it important for a registered dietitian?
[00:01:53] Taylor: Well, thanks Libby for having me on again. It's been a lot of fun from the last podcast and I'm really excited about this one.[00:02:00]
[00:02:00] Taylor: Negotiating is such a powerful thing that. I think it's just undervalued or underutilized when you're going through formal education process, when you're, you're getting, at the university through your DI program. And, you know, it is impactful for your, your life. [00:02:20] It's your, it's your means of living. So that comes full circle back to how well you can negotiate your, your salary and your comfort of living.
[00:02:30] Taylor: It is an important skill to have because I feel like when you're unable to negotiate your. You're doing, you know, yourself [00:02:40] a disservice. You could potentially be undervaluing your worth and you shouldn't be undervalued. Like we went and did a lot of school, paid a lot of money and you were competent and you should be confident in negotiating your worth and what you can bring to the table and your contribution.[00:03:00]
[00:03:00] Taylor: And when you don't have the tools in your toolbox to do that, it just, it's Doesn't set you up for advocating for yourself or the profession.
[00:03:09] Libby: Absolutely. And that's been historically a big issue in dietetics, which is why I'm so glad that we're talking about this exact topic today. This topic has been brought up in my [00:03:20] episodes over the years, but we haven't done an actual episode dedicated, I don't believe, to negotiation.
[00:03:26] Libby: So I'm really excited to dive in. Here from your story, I'll share some anecdotes from my background. And I know the listeners are going to be thinking, Hmm, what's my contribution to this conversation as well? So one of the reasons that we wanted to talk about this [00:03:40] is because of your approach, which is unique in that most dietitians are scared and timid.
[00:03:45] Libby: Understandably about negotiation is a business skill, right? So business skills in general are. Much needed in dietetics. We're not taught these things in school. So I'm looking at negotiation as a subset of a business skill. So can you share what [00:04:00] is your approach to negotiation as well as maybe you can talk a little bit about some examples you've encountered?
[00:04:06] Taylor: Yeah. So I approach negotiation when I do receive an initial offer from a job. I then always take time, always ask if you can sleep on it, have at least [00:04:20] 24, maybe 48 hours, depending on the job, they may give you longer if they ask you for a weekend, but that's typically a suitable and acceptable time frame.
[00:04:32] Taylor: To have the negotiation. So in that time I do sleep on it, but I also go to my computer, go to Google [00:04:40] and I will look up from the academy resources of, you know, salary surveys to whatever, you know, industry you're in. So like. With sports nutrition, I'll go to CPSDA or formerly CPSDA. They just changed their name, but that they have salary survey for sports dietitians [00:05:00] from different levels, years of experience to your credentials, a master's degree, but so there's, there's different levels of what would qualify you for then start to look at cost of living.
[00:05:13] Taylor: In the area that I'm being offered the job and if it, how it compares to where I currently live [00:05:20] and where I'm going to live. So that could be anything from rent to groceries. Maybe it's a change in car insurance. I mean, the long lengthy list and I just searched it on Google and then I compare what that looks like and what it's going to take to have the same comfort of living in that new job.
[00:05:38] Taylor: And then on top of [00:05:40] that, you need to give yourself a raise. So, you know, whatever that number is normally I like to do at least 10 percent potentially higher depending on the job, what I know the resources are. Cause there are going to be some jobs that just do not have what you're asking. So you need to make sure that your ask isn't [00:06:00] unreasonable.
[00:06:01] Taylor: And with that, so I obviously go higher than 10% at times, but that's just kind of like just a buffer, right? And that's going to be more than your annual job, usually. And so then from there, if I have the capability of connecting with other people that are in similar [00:06:20] roles or similar industry, I might ask, hey, like, what does your employer offer in terms of benefits?
[00:06:27] Taylor: Because that also can add more to what your overall take home is, right? So I might look at, do they pay for your continuing education credits, do they pay for your licensure, do [00:06:40] you get, I don't know, stipends for things, do you get free meals, or, you know, comp meals, or travel, all the, what is included here.
[00:06:49] Taylor: Health benefit, your retirement, all of that adds up to what you're negotiating and what you're getting.
[00:06:55] Libby: Yeah. And I love that. So I'd be curious for the listeners to ask [00:07:00] themselves, have you done that? When you've been offered a position, have you gone through Taylor steps of searching the area cost of living asking for 10 percent above of the asking price?
[00:07:11] Libby: Is that what I heard? 10 percent above. Yeah. Yeah. And anything else that you do when you're looking and analyzing it? I love that. That, oh, and you're waiting 24 hours, which [00:07:20] is important because as humans, it's so easy to be reactive and maybe even anxious because some, you know, finding dietitian jobs is not easy.
[00:07:27] Libby: Right. I remember when I lived in New York city, it was competitive when I was a new dietitian. And so I had this almost anxious feeling like I had to take what was available and it did not help with my ability to [00:07:40] negotiate. So I really love that, that tip, the waiting 24 hours on, on the, whatever you're offered.
[00:07:44] Taylor: Yeah. And it does feel pressured, especially if you really want the job and you know, it's competitive, but really you have that power to ask and they can say no. But more times than not, that person that is trying to [00:08:00] hire you, they, they want you, right? You got offered the job. You have the power to ask the most power you're going to have at that job.
[00:08:10] Taylor: Is going to be in the negotiation. And before you start that job, once you start that job and you take whatever agreement you have, it is really [00:08:20] hard to ask for a lot more when you accepted something in the beginning. Yeah. So take the time you need. That's really important, like, always ask for that. And sometimes, you know, you just need to maybe talk to whoever your support is at home.
[00:08:36] Taylor: Maybe that is your, your family. Maybe that's, you know, [00:08:40] A spouse, friends, whoever's in your inner circle. And maybe they also have some words of encouragement or advice, but I think taking the time to just breathe and sleep on it and really doing the research. No, it sounds like a lot, but it is going to pay off if you really look at [00:09:00] everything and put a pen and paper to it.
[00:09:01] Taylor: And something I didn't include is if they're going to offer you to move. So if you are moving. And a different city, a different state, clear across the country. I ask if they're going to be a relocation expense. A lot of jobs offer it. So, know what they're offering you. Know if [00:09:20] it's a good offer. I have been offered significantly lower in a moving cost when I'm moving clear across, you know, country before.
[00:09:28] Taylor: And I, I went and I looked at what is, The cost to get a moving company or, you know, a U Haul, however, you know, your budget is, and then what is it also to stay the night [00:09:40] at maybe a hotel? Gas, the cost of food, all the packing supplies, everything that would be encompassed in a move that is important because you could easily be 10 grand out of pocket with just a move that your company could cover.
[00:09:55] Taylor: And they should cover if. You have where you're having to move across the country, [00:10:00] other states. So that is a part of your negotiation. And so when you put a pen and paper to it, just like a research article, when you have evidence to back up what you're saying. You can confidently ask for it because you're like, no, I've done the research.
[00:10:17] Taylor: I've gotten quotes. Like this is what it [00:10:20] is. And it makes your position really strong.
[00:10:23] Libby: Yeah. Thank you for sharing that. The powerful messages. So based on your experience, where did you learn the art and skill of negotiating?
[00:10:32] Taylor: You know, honestly, probably my dad, he is a finance guy. And. He just [00:10:40] taught me well and like taught me like the numbers and do the research and he's probably where I got the research and going down the rabbit holes from.
[00:10:48] Taylor: They just really don't teach you it in school and I early on didn't have the mentorship with negotiating from. My mentors or my [00:11:00] supervisors and that, you know, may not necessarily be on them. You know, I don't know that I actually explicitly asked either. So it's something I've had to learn throughout over time and my experiences.
[00:11:12] Taylor: And once, you know, I felt comfortable with what I was asking. And it was [00:11:20] higher than what was initially offered and, you know, and sometimes the employer will then go back and say, okay, I need to got myself out of the job, but no, like pleasantly surprised that I've gotten exactly what I bounced for, because, you know, I was able to present in a very competent [00:11:40] way, the numbers and my research and It was received very positively and worked out for me, but I think because I took the risk, if you will, and went out of my comfort zone and put myself out there and my work.
[00:11:57] Taylor: And I had a positive response. It [00:12:00] then gave me momentum and confidence for the next job in negotiating. And as I have been in different positions, I've also been exposed to, Oh, I didn't know I could ask for X, Y, and Z like as a benefit. And so now I know, okay, yeah, I know I can ask for continuing education and a [00:12:20] licensure and like to a conference, a hotel.
[00:12:24] Taylor: And, and food, you know, when you're first starting out, it's very daunting and feel like, you know, you're just trying to fill out like your way and your industry and, and work hard and you don't want to cause any friction or, you know, anything that's maybe [00:12:40] not going to be receivable. So I think connecting with people and just the exposure from other experiences, I was able to understand.
[00:12:48] Taylor: Also what all you can ask for.
[00:12:50] Libby: Well, I love that story. Thank you for sharing Taylor. And what I'm hearing is that an external factor of being your father helped you as an influence. But what I'm also hearing, [00:13:00] correct me if I'm wrong, is that dietetics or the messages that you learned in school. Didn't really help you with these skills, right?
[00:13:07] Libby: So you had an external source that helped you improve, but if you would have not had that external source, then you might have struggled with some of the tactics that you employed that worked. Would you say that's true?
[00:13:19] Taylor: Yeah, that's [00:13:20] correct.
[00:13:20] Libby: So what kind of messages did school send you in terms of negotiating, if anything, or when it comes to salaries for registered dietician jobs?
[00:13:28] Taylor: Yeah, great question. So when I was in my program, from my memory, I remember that we didn't discuss negotiation. It was just, you [00:13:40] know, here's the national standard salary for a dietician, which at the top for entry level. And at the time it was 50, 000. And so the expectation was, okay, once you pass your RD exam and you go, does that matter where I live?
[00:13:54] Taylor: Cause absolutely it does. Cost of living changes based on where you're located. And we [00:14:00] didn't go over how do we approach that because I can. Transparently say, I was offered in my first positions lower than that national standard that they said I would get in school. And then when that happens, I'm, you know, I'm thinking, wait, this is not [00:14:20] the expectation I had when I was, You know, given advice, you know, that this is what it was going to be and people are offering lower than that, that, and I didn't know how to, to get more than what I was being offered.
[00:14:35] Libby: And I totally agree. I can say I was very naive [00:14:40] myself. I went into dietetic with a personal training background and I was convinced that I was going to combine personal training and Nutrition. And so whatever they said, I didn't even know what the salary was. I just was so convinced that I was going to start my own business and do my own thing with endless opportunities, which did happen, but not [00:15:00] quite the way I had thought it would.
[00:15:02] Libby: So I knew it was an issue. But I just said, I'm going to start my own business, so I'll do my own thing. But it really was an issue because I, you know, I was told to get clinical experience and I did, and then I did not use enough negotiation skills, which we'll get to in a minute, because I want to ask you about some tools that our [00:15:20] listeners can use that might help them or some examples that you can share.
[00:15:23] Libby: But I will say in my experience, there was no talk of 50, 000 is the minimum, nothing like that. I was told the stories in school that you'll be lucky if you get a job. And I was also told you have to get two years clinical experience. So just do whatever you can to get the experience. And so it [00:15:40] made me feel, you know, obviously insecure, like, Oh gosh, you just have to take it.
[00:15:43] Libby: And I can't start my business until I have these two years of clinical experience practice. And so then it, two years turned into four, four years turned into five. And then there I was. Broke in my office, depressed, feeling like I didn't have the skills or the confidence. So it took me, I mean, I did have my own [00:16:00] consulting business, but it wasn't full time until I made it full time.
[00:16:03] Libby: But these are real issues, right? Because we were stuck in these patterns of low self worth and not, you know, showing. people that we are the experts if we're not able to practice these business skills and position ourselves as authorities. So this really is an issue in the, in the field. It's just, [00:16:20] it's going to take the education system and dietetics curriculum or internships to update this.
[00:16:26] Libby: That kind of change can take some time, but hopefully these conversations. can contribute towards that in a positive way. Now one tool, I don't know if you have any to add to this cause you've already given so many great tips, Taylor, but one tool that I use is the Academy salary calculator, [00:16:40] which I also didn't know about till I had done what you said, accepted the job.
[00:16:44] Libby: I was in the job and then I didn't even know that tool existed. As far as I'm concerned, it is part of being a membership of the Academy of nutrition and dietetics, but the salary calculator has a really cool algorithm built in where you can and then you can say, based on the size of your hospital, the position, if you're in management [00:17:00] and where you live and all kinds of other criteria, what you can ask for.
[00:17:03] Libby: And the idea is that you can use that as a tool for negotiating your salary. Is that something you've used or anything similar that you could share with the listeners?
[00:17:12] Taylor: Dietetics. So I have relied more on the recent years on what used to be CPSDA. It's [00:17:20] now ASPDA. And that just means American Sports and Performance Dietitians Association.
[00:17:25] Taylor: They break it down from a salary survey perspective, and I know it is updated. Regularly, and they go through your years of experience to your credentials. Like if you have [00:17:40] your, your CSSD versus just your RD and maybe like the areas you're in, so maybe it's professional sports versus collegiate and so forth.
[00:17:49] Taylor: And that. Resource is really helpful because it at least has where you're, you kind of sit within your niche, depending on if you get even more niche than [00:18:00] that. Let's for instance, I was in baseball the last couple of years and the MLB itself has a salary survey that it collects annually from a different position.
[00:18:12] Taylor: So a director to. A majorly to a minorly dietitian and so forth. And from there you can see the averages [00:18:20] of what people are getting paid in their positions, which is super helpful. And sometimes it'll also include additional benefits you're getting with a job. When you have tools within your niche and what you specialize in, or if it's more broad, find out if they have.
[00:18:37] Taylor: Salary surveys amongst the [00:18:40] group you're in. And if they don't, I think going back broadly to the academy calculation tool is a good resource.
[00:18:47] Libby: Yeah, and there's also the salary tool or the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics salary report that they update every five years. And it is more general because I know you're a sports dietitian.
[00:18:59] Libby: And so the [00:19:00] listeners, I knew we have source dietitian listeners, but there are folks in diabetes and chronic disease and peds and unknown or undecided. So that survey, which is published every five years is also another tool because it shows you the top 10 percent earners. And the low 10% earners. And the median earners as well as the statistics of labor.
[00:19:19] Libby: And Bureau [00:19:20] also has the median salary now, I believe it's 63 to 65. So if it was 50 when you graduated, it's gone up and it could due to cost of living, inflation, et cetera. But those are good benchmarks to know because I didn't even know that when I graduated to became a dietician. I didn't know what the average annual salary was.
[00:19:36] Libby: I didn't, I've always been an academy member, but I didn't even know about these tools. [00:19:40] So I hope that this conversation. Can get folks excited. And if you're not a member of the Academy, you can at least go online to the statistics of labor and Bureau, because that's going to give you median salary amount per registered dietitian, which is better than nothing.
[00:19:53] Libby: That's public knowledge. Yeah. I was just going to ask you if you had any other stories or tips about something that went well or [00:20:00] something that didn't go well. In your journey of negotiating, because I absolutely love that you do this. And I think you've given some really good insights already.
[00:20:08] Taylor: So one example that comes to mind is I was being pursued for a job that I felt confident that I had the job.
[00:20:18] Taylor: I knew. Some [00:20:20] inside sources, what the salary range was funded for that position. So I, I had some pretty good insight and I knew from where I was living at the time to that position. They were in two different locations, two different states, and I knew I was going to have to make a certain [00:20:40] amount. And then I also gave myself a little bop.
[00:20:43] Taylor: So I didn't ask for the upper end of that scale, but I probably asked a little too much and I didn't get that job. They gave it to someone else. I did ask too high. So. [00:21:00] I would say if you are going to ask higher or you feel confident you deserve higher than what is being given to you, be prepared to get turned down and be okay with it.
[00:21:13] Taylor: It is a tricky balance of feeling confident and knowing your worth, but also is your ask [00:21:20] unrealistic? And it could be more than what they're funded for, or it could be more than they're willing to pay. It's hard to fill out that situation sometimes, and certainly if you have the connections and some insight, that can be helpful.
[00:21:35] Taylor: But, yeah, you've gotta be prepared to walk away and [00:21:40] be confident in your worth and your value.
[00:21:43] Libby: So that's great, Taylor. Thank you for for sharing that. And then if you were in closing to share any other insights in terms of how can someone practice? So let's say someone is in a job that comfortable or they might have a business, but they're [00:22:00] still working some some type of a position.
[00:22:02] Libby: Negotiating https: otter. ai might practice all the time, if we're talking in the context of a salary negotiation, unless we're talking about a raise, which is a whole different episode. So what do you think the listeners can do to practice this skill, given that it's not something that we do every day in this context?
[00:22:17] Taylor: Right. Well, I think it. It [00:22:20] can even be an analogy for how you prep as a dietitian, you relied on your educational trainings, whether that was book materials, articles, and I think really just educating yourself on what all needs to go into a negotiation. I know I gave a lot of pointers. [00:22:40] How I approach it earlier on.
[00:22:43] Taylor: And really that's what you have to go through. Like think of every facet of your life outside of work at work and, and really start looking, I think even if you were to take. Job postings today. And sometimes they display what the salary is. [00:23:00] Sometimes they don't. And if they do, then you can practice, okay, this is what I make in the location.
[00:23:07] Taylor: I am to say, I don't know, Dallas, Texas, and I am making X amount of salary. And I'm seeing that. If I moved to Miami, Florida, that there's a [00:23:20] higher cost of living, say I need a higher salary to have the same comfort of living at this salary to make a same comparable salary cost of living as I would in Dallas.
[00:23:36] Taylor: And then from there. You then need to add a percent [00:23:40] raise on top of that. So it's going to look much higher because you're talking about a place that has a higher cost of living. And then we can go with an arbitrary 10 percent and then add 10 percent of that. So if you're just practicing looking up how to go about looking at the comparison of Salaries, cost of [00:24:00] living, and all the means of what that would look like.
[00:24:03] Taylor: That's a good exercise because you can easily access job postings. And hopefully some of them have the salary and then you can go back and say, okay, this is what it's going to take at least, you know, be a lateral move. This is what it would be to be a motion. And [00:24:20] then from there you go back and you say, okay, well, this is lower.
[00:24:25] Taylor: Or this is higher, however it is in alignment, and let's say it's lower. This is lower than what it would take for what I'm making now. So then go back and practice, okay, how am I going to argue [00:24:40] that point? That I need more because I'm already getting paid this. I'm not going to take a demotion because when you factor in the cost of living, and it is a demotion, if it is not what the percentage increase of the salary of your current salary in your state, where you're going [00:25:00] with a higher cost of living is, then.
[00:25:02] Taylor: It is a demotion and you're actually like worse off than staying or whatever the current rule is. So I think that will help you practice negotiation when it is time that there's a person on the other end of it.
[00:25:15] Libby: I think that's a fantastic tip and it takes some discipline, which just goes back to [00:25:20] some business skills, time management, but I think that's a great, great suggestion.
[00:25:24] Libby: So thank you so much for sharing that Taylor. Any final notes you want to leave us with as we wrap up today's episode, where you shared your experience, free resources, resources behind the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics, your experience, what you were told, accept a job at 50k or whatever, my experience, they [00:25:40] didn't even talk about salary bans when I was in school, of course, the practical application tip, hey, if you are not needing this skill now, but everybody does in the future, go look for some job openings and do some of these calculations to see what you would ask if this were to present yourself at this time.
[00:25:56] Libby: So that's a recap of today from what I gathered. Anything [00:26:00] else that I'm missing or anything you want to leave the listeners with today?
[00:26:03] Taylor: No, I think, you know, with anything, as you become more educated and become more confident in what you're talking about, just like dietetics, negotiation is the same way.
[00:26:13] Taylor: So just really, I encourage you to take the time to research it and it'll gain confidence [00:26:20] when the time comes to negotiate. And when someone's like, well, why did you ask that? Or like, where's the backing behind that? Then you're confident that you can present that information. And when you're confident and what you're saying, just like in dietetics, people are going to.
[00:26:39] Taylor: [00:26:40] Trust what you're saying as expert, and it puts you in a position to get the offer that you're wanting because you're presenting it in a very confident, educational, intelligent way. Like I said, from my experience, more times than not, it's actually worked in my favor. So practice, and you're going to get [00:27:00] confident, and things will happen for you.
[00:27:02] Libby: Well, thank you so much for sharing that. And then another thing you said as a recap from today's episode that I gathered is to treat negotiation as a skill like you do preparing and dietetics, right? So we prepare for, let's say, our sessions. We look over our notes. We approach counseling as a skill and learn about motivational [00:27:20] interviewing.
[00:27:20] Libby: So we're constantly trying to be better dietitians, but we often think that just means clinical skills, but it doesn't, it also encompasses business skills, negotiations, sales tactics, networking, et cetera. So I think you did a beautiful job of illustrating what that looks like and sharing your personal experiences.
[00:27:36] Libby: So thank you so much, Taylor. This was such a fun episode. Can you [00:27:40] remind people where to find you if they want to connect with you online?
[00:27:42] Taylor: Yes. Thank you so much for having me. And if you want to connect with me online and you can reach me at my website, taylorforperformance.com. Also the same on Instagram, @tayloredforperformance.
[00:27:54] Libby: Awesome. Thank you so much. Looking for support to grow your dietitian business [00:28:00] or even get started. I invite you to join the library. Our monthly affordable membership that shows you exactly what to do every step of the way so that you can create the business of your dreams. Not sure if it's the right time.
[00:28:13] Libby: The membership gives you an option to go at your own pace. We have modules, a roadmap to show you [00:28:20] exactly what to do and monthly live calls, as well as new content that we release. every single month based on requests. Inside of the library, we have four stages of business. So whether you come in getting started or you want to enter the membership and grow or scale your business, we have the appropriate resources for you and our team, including myself available to answer your [00:28:40] questions.
[00:28:40] Libby: Head on over to Dietitianboss.com and check out the library today. We'd love to see you there.
