[00:00:00] If you're looking to grow your business as a registered dietitian, you've come to the right place. If you're not sure what to do or what steps to take next so that you can create flexibility and freedom in your life, then you're going to learn a lot from tuning into our podcast here at dietitian boss.
I'm Libby Rothschild, the founder of dietitian boss, a fellow registered dietitian and business owner. And in our podcast, I share. The highs and the lows. And I talk all about how to grow your business, get it started. And I interview our clients to date. We've had over 200 interviews from clients who share their journey on our podcast, dietitian boss.
Libby: Hello and welcome. Today I'm interviewing Toby, a wall street journal, bestselling cookbook author who has 11 published cookbooks. For over 17 years, Toby has been the nutrition expert for foodnetwork. com and founding contributor to their healthy eats blog. Toby is a regular contributor for many national online publications.
And for over 10 years, she has been penning the ask the expert column in today's dietitian [00:01:00] magazine. She's also on the medical board for Forbes. com and eat this. com. And the editorial board for today's dietitian magazine. As a nutrition expert, she has been quoted in hundreds of publications and regularly appears on local and national television shows for 11 years.
Toby was an adjunct professor at Teachers College, Columbia University. Toby trains as a clinical dietitian at New York university. Through ongoing consulting and faculty positions, she has established herself as one of the top experts in culinary nutrition, food safety, and media communications.
In 2018, Toby was awarded by the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics, the coveted Media Excellence Award. Welcome to today's episode.
I'm so excited to have you here today, Toby. Thank you for taking your time to spend with us today and share a bit of your story for our listeners. Thanks so much for having me. I'm very excited and you're such a great role model for the community and you've accomplished so much. So I wanted to get right in and talk a little bit about your background.
So would you mind [00:02:00] starting to share a little bit about how you transitioned from clinical work to cookbook, writing, media, and consulting? What moments helped shape your career in terms of becoming a best selling author?
Toby: Sure. I mean, it started, definitely, you don't just jump in to be cookbook authors.
So I started actually, my mother's a registered dietitian as well, and she was teaching at a culinary school. And at the time, her and my father were doing a lot of traveling, so she needed a sub. So I ended up becoming full time, not only just subbing her at a culinary school in, downtown New York City.
And the person who did PR kept asking me for quotes and TV. So I kind of liked it. I never experienced it before. I never took a class on it. So that's kind of what happened. And then once I kind of looked into it, I'm like, Oh, I kind of like this. And then I went to some other online jobs and kind of one thing led to the other where I actually Worked for an online company who went bankrupt But the person who owned scripts and that or the person who was high up at scripts [00:03:00] network at the time and they wanted to start Healthy eats blog They kind of pulled us in from that Bankruptcy company.
And, it was me and Dana Angelo White who started blogging for healthy eats about 17 years ago. So it's not like, Hey, how'd you do it in five minutes? No, there was a lot of blood, sweat and tears that went in and one step to the other. And a lot of like, just opportunities I took until I got So now, 17, 20 years later.
Libby: You sharing about how you did the blogging for 17 years. So what were some of the setbacks? You mentioned blood, sweat and tears. Would you be willing to share a little bit about what that looked like?
Toby: Sure. I mean, I did a TV segment and when I was at the New York restaurant school at the time, which was a very, nice culinary school.
And they didn't air it. I was like, I taped it and they are nothing that I did. Or, I do a lot of media queries. I wasn't trained on it and I do the best I can. I was really nervous. I was about 24 at the time and there was no one really to show me what media was. But, I took a [00:04:00] shot.
They weren't paying me for it. And they asked me for quite a bit of them. And then I transitioned to online companies at the time. There were a lot of online startups. Again, you're not making tons of money. You're putting in a ton of work, like a ton. I was on bed rest when I was pregnant working.
I just worked, worked, worked in order to like, just do the best I can and see where it would lead.
Libby: What motivated you to do that, given that the online world was so new at that time, and you were obviously cutting edge, and it sounds like you had some obstacles. What kept you going when times were tough?
Well,
Toby: I kept the teaching job, so I actually held two full time jobs at one time. Yeah, it was really, and then I cut down a little bit of my culinary teaching at the culinary school, and then I transitioned fully over when I was more secure, but I still lost all my benefits from that full time position.
When you transition to the online world, even if it's full time, they're not necessarily, oh, you know, it was like three quarter time. They were startup. They were just getting everything together. I didn't have, all the benefits I had at the other one. So it was like, a lot [00:05:00] of people told me not to do it and I decided, I was like, I taught for over 10 years.
I was at the limit of like I need more. That's me. Like you have to look at yourself. Is this good enough for you? Or do you want more? And I wanted more at the time. I wanted to expand. See where the field of dietetics took me.
Libby: And look what those risks accomplished.
So that's a really great story. So just to make sure , I'm understanding that, right. You felt, let me know if I'm paraphrasing correctly, a little, like you had reached your upper limit at your position after 10 years, you wanted more and that's what had motivated you to hold down two jobs and go into a field, a startup, which was a big risk.
Is that, is that kind of correct? That's exactly. Yeah. Did you find that you were unique among your peers? Were there other peers of yours that were also in the same position taking these risks? Or did you feel a little bit alone in that?
Toby: I didn't know what my peers really were doing at the time.
It's really a self reflective thing. I don't compare myself to anybody else because I was also having babies at the [00:06:00] time. Like, I have 3 children and now they're about, you know, it's the youngest of 17, but it's an internal need of myself and I self reflected and that is what I needed in order for myself to grow as a human and in the field of dietetic. Okay.
Libby: I know that it's new for dietitians to branch into these roles. And I can imagine that 17, 20 years ago, it must've been more of an unknown thing to do. Like you were a pioneer. So it sounds like the self reflection allowed you to separate yourself from seeing what your peers were doing and just do something that you internally knew you wanted to do without Looking around, so to speak.
Toby: Yeah, we only had two people kind of to look up to at the time, and it was joy Bauer. I mean, still is. And, I mean, those two, we'd be like, Oh, look, like, we'll never be like this. In the media world, they were, definitely role models, especially even to me from many years back when I started.
Libby: Were trying to get joy Bauer on the podcast in the summer. So we're circling back to her. Yeah, I agree in terms of those being like, great role [00:07:00] models. And now you are the role model, right? For the next generation. So it's exciting that you're able to step into their shoes and really just take all that media work to the next level.
Because so many dietitians want to do that. So that's where my next question is. You have been able to break into the publishing world, which is not easy to do. And you've written 11 cookbooks. So what advice do you have for dietitians who want to write a book, but many of them don't Don't know where to start or maybe those that have written a book.
They don't understand what the opportunities are for the next one. Do you have any thoughts on that topic?
Toby: Sure. So, I mean, personally, when I got an offer, someone saw my writing. I actually wrote, a milk and dairy chapter in a science level, agricultural. College book like you know, they were using the book for the course. And so I had posted it on my website and somebody like a publishing house saw it. And they asked me to offer it. And so I did. And that's where the Greek yogurt kitchen came from.
But after the Greek yogurt kitchen at a very hard time, [00:08:00] finding other opportunities. So, you know, I continued my other work. And being visible in the media, not just with the cookbook, but just being visible, whatever your avenue is, it could be social media, it could be, through online media outlets, whatever it is, that's what helped get me kind of.
Through the door originally, but then I really needed to find, somebody who would take me on as my agent, I need an agent and I went through a couple of agents and some of my friends introduced me to wonderful agents, but they just weren't the right fit for me.
So I had to find an agent who was the right fit for me and believed in me. And, they've been with me from the 2nd book onwards and, we have a great connection.
I needed to find the right one for me. Cause I did go through one or two before that just weren't right for me. But number two, it wasn't my only thing I was doing. I was still extremely visible in the media. I was doing a ton of stuff, even spokesperson work at the time. So my visibility as a [00:09:00] dietitian in that world and my writing samples from whatever I was writing for whatever I was doing was still available.
So they had something to like, look at almost like a resume of sorts that I was knowledgeable.
Libby: So do you have any tips then? Do you still recommend, in addition to having a presence? Like you mentioned, pick a platform or two and have a presence is what I think I heard.
Toby: Do you recommend dietitians get an agent as well now if they're looking to publish multiple cookbooks? Is that what you recommend to the audience?
There's conferences talking about publishing books. I mean, it's not like, hi, I'm going to find an agent. You need to build those connections through time.
Toby: You need to go, there's numerous conferences that you can attend. And you can follow them too, there's some agents if you look at your favorite agents or whatnot and then find them and follow them on social media because some of them do have discussion groups and whatnot and then you can get some like, direction that way too.
Because blindly reaching out is hard, it's not that, it's really not that easy these days now to get agents. But, you need to do a little bit [00:10:00] more digging on who they are. Who's do you think is a good fit for you? And like I said, there's a lot of conferences on the topic.
Libby: Being involved in the community. Right. So in terms of media and brand visibility. You've been featured in Food Network, U. S. News, Today's Dietitian, and National TV, which is really impressive. So do you have tips for dietitians who are looking to get featured in media and grow their visibility?
I know we've talked about the cookbook specifically, but now I just want to talk about in general. Sure.
Toby: I've written for all those, but I've also been interviewed. So, as a dietitian, you can have numerous roles. So, I always say, like, even with your brand visibility. If you're, some people are afraid of writing or they don't like how they write or whatnot, you can always build those skills. You know, but to break into writing, I would recommend this like a registered dietitian.
You can even start with the academy. They have all the DPGs and they're always looking for writers and that's a really nice way to start getting published. Believe me, people are looking at what you're writing there too, because I've [00:11:00] gotten calls off of those too. So that's a really nice way to start and build your portfolio, even go to local places in your area.
So, when I had my original agent, not a literary, but I had someone who is a good friend and they were, they were an agent for different genres, not just nutrition. And she said, you just can't go from nothing to national. It doesn't work that way. So you have to start local. You start A& D is a good place with those DPGs and build your way up.
Once you have some writing samples, they're going to want to see them. Like I even did a blog. That's how I got into today's dietitian. And at that time, when I started my blog, it was asked Toby. That's why it's the ask the expert column, because that's where it came from.
And the same with TV, like I started and I continue to do a ton of Local stations, but I do a lot big, you know, then I could do nationally did dr Oz I did weather channel was with sam champion at the time.
He had a show but I continue to do tons of of local stations to some with a [00:12:00] tremendous amount of reach. Again, you start local and build your way up like the person who got me pr press for my first few books, she told me she can't get me a national without any local Television. So you got to start local and then you move your way up.
It takes a lot of time and it takes, it's not like I'm going to work no hours and go to get on national TV. It doesn't work that way. You've got to put in the time and the effort.
Libby: Yeah. I love those practical tips, Toby. Those are really helpful for the listeners. So just one more question on that before we move on.
When you're saying it takes a long time, I know you can't say how long, but what have you Is that that kind of starting from local and then branching out for most people is that are we talking three to five years or what do you see?
Toby: It really depends how much time and effort you put into it. Like, I go to numerous meetings.
I'm always at fancy at today's dietitian out Expo West. Like, those are my chosen meetings. There are a lot of other ones. I go to additional meetings on top of that. But I made connections, [00:13:00] when Twitter was very connecting, you know, follow Fridays and all that.
We would connect and then I'd meet those people and in real life, and then my visibility and honestly, I worked till many hours till midnight, weekends, holidays, like I just work because that's, I was going through honestly a bad marriage and I wanted to like tune it out.
So I would sit there and then I would go to FNC and people would be like, Oh, I read your stuff. I was like, what? I'm just sitting in bad marriage in my office, trying not to like interrupt. So, you know, it is of work. If you're really like, Working a ton and making these connections and going to the conferences.
Yeah, it could take, you know, I started building out probably like 345 years and then over time it expands. Well, I appreciate your honesty
Libby: and what a great way to channel having , personal issues is. Spending time doing work, right? Doing something meaningful. Like you said, I'm remembering that comment about how you had taught for 10 years and you wanted something more, right?
It sounds like that's really the foundation for all the great work you've done is wanting to [00:14:00] create more impact and have more opportunities. And then you found a way to build them. That's a great role modeling for dietitians who oftentimes our audience thinks that, they need more clinical, which clinical is important, but I advocate for strong business skills.
And I think you're doing such a great job of showing practical examples of that. I don't know if you've seen this, Toby. I'm guessing you identify as an extrovert, but you know that in our field, there's a lot of introverts for those who are a little more shy and have a hard time with all this outreach and time networking and doing local stuff, and they're terrified of rejection, even if it just means you're reaching out to your local community.
What tips do you have for those people?
Toby: So I was a big introvert and I have a mini me daughter who is an introvert. Even like, in college, please go talk to the teacher so you can get led into class and let them know you're a double major. Like, just going to talk slowly to people.
And, if you get rejected, guess what? It's part of the process and you should be proud that you tried. So, slowly doing things and. One of the things that I also say to people who are afraid of writing or even [00:15:00] giving quotes, start with sharing articles that you enjoy, that you think has good information, read what other people write, you know, see the style of writing that you may like, because I have a very specific style of writing where I try to give the pros and cons and then I let the human being make the decision of what they want to I don't, you know, say, you have to eat this or you have to eat that, but I kind of give them, here's the benefit of this. You're maybe like, you may not be getting enough. Here's a downfall if you don't get, like I give the pros and cons and like, here's a recommended amount. And look at the different styles of writing, share articles to your social media outlets that you like, and that's a different way of sharing good information, but without you in the spotlight, and going to those local meetings, the state meetings, the local meetings also helps you build those connections. And believe me, people do want to talk to you. So definitely give it a try.
Libby: Yeah,
Toby: I love
Libby: those action packed tips.
Those are really practical to me. So thank you for sharing those. One of my favorite topics for dietetics [00:16:00] and to ask guests and just talk about in general includes multiple revenue streams. And you've successfully diversified your income through books, consulting, media work, brand sponsorships, partnerships, and I'm sure many other things.
So how did you decide what to focus on and what advice would you give to dietitians who want to do the same?
Toby: Honestly, I was lucky enough to go with the flow. Like I did not say, I'm going to, do this because it makes money. I love writing for outlets and I think it's a really nice way to reach millions plus.
So I really focused on that because I just enjoyed it so much. And that's not your huge moneymaker unless you're doing a ton and ton of articles all the time. And it's tough because sometimes when your editor leaves, like, Someone else comes in and no more articles for you, so it's very tough just to get writing in general.
So when things came to me, I had to think like a brand partnership. Is this a brand I'm proud of working with? Do I back up what they're saying? And I've said no to brands that offer me, you know, a [00:17:00] lot of money and I just didn't agree with work. I didn't agree with their philosophy or their ethics or whatever it may be.
So, I definitely, whatever avenue I do, I always think about how they represent me. If they're in line with my philosophy am I proud to work with them? I think that's a really important point to make our DS aware of your, who you brand partnership with reflects on who you are as a registered dietitian.
Libby: Sure. So what I heard were four questions that you reflect on to ask yourself almost as a system or a framework for would I work with this brand? Would I partner with them in any capacity? And you ask yourself those questions before you say yes or no. And that kind of helps give you a framework. Maybe other dietitians could think of what they want to ask themselves before they would decide to partner as well.
Toby: with books, you have to sometimes the editors have an idea that they want to write in. Like my last book was health shots. And, you know, we did have the discussion. Should we put CBD in there? I said, no. Should we put supplements or tinctures? [00:18:00] I said, no, because I don't want someone to play with that and toxicity is an issue.
So I said, I want to use food on its own because I believe food is the number one way to start. That's how you start with, anything basically like food first. I've had many such discussions with different editors on different directions where to go or some I didn't believe in. I'm like, well, would you be happy to do X, Y, and Z?
And they're like, yes, there are always angles you can do to veer it away from like things you don't believe in to make it. Science based. Yeah,
Libby: Like your recommendation or your experience with building multiple revenue streams pretty much sums up the do's and don'ts for partnering with food brands.
Is that correct? I feel like you've added everything in terms of do's and don'ts. Okay. That was going to be my next topic, but it sounds like you've you've covered that. Oh, there's more.
Toby: There's always more.
Libby: Yeah, it's a big topic. If there's anything else you want to add, I'm open to it. Otherwise, I wanted to move on
one of the biggest topics, which is overcoming imposter syndrome and building confidence. Oftentimes in school were taught a lot [00:19:00] of emphasis about dietetics and less so about leadership and business skills. So when it comes to building confidence, many of us hesitate to put ourselves out there and you already talked about.
Doing things at a local level, but when it comes to mindset shifts, what's helped you step into the media, publishing and consulting, and do you have any other mindset specific tips for the listeners that they can take away?
Toby: Sure. You're the registered dietitian. You're the expert and you have to truly believe that you are, and that'll give you the confidence.
Building that confidence is utmost importance. When I give talks, the reason for many years, I've said, I think it's the confidence level, and if I don't know something, guess what, I'll say, let me look that up for you. So, it's being prepared, even with some hard questions, because you might be like, oh my goodness, they might ask me a question that I don't know.
That's okay. You don't know everything, I always say like everybody likes to use AI, but I'm like, my brain is the nutrition AI at this point, but you can say, I'll [00:20:00] look it up later because you always have ways you can look things up later.
So I think, putting yourself out there. Making mistakes or fall. We always say it in dietetics. You fall off the wagon, you get back on. It's just part of the process. It's the same here. Listen, you always take a few steps back and then, one step forward, whatever, however that saying goes.
Same here with any job that you may do. You're going to get sidetracked. You're going to go off a little, but then you go back and you're like, okay, I'm going to do it this way this time and hopefully it'll come out better.
Libby: Those are great mindset reframes. It makes sense when we're talking about them, but when we're in the moment, they can feel so challenging to implement.
So my experience with what you're saying is just repetition, right? So being able to have an experience and embrace it and do it again and be okay with making some flops, right?
Toby: Yeah, definitely. And also, like, one of the things I do also is I do have cognitive behavior and dialectic behavior therapy.
And if there's some self things, self reflection, you want to do, or some things you're not sure of how to handle certain situations. Going through [00:21:00] like cognitive behavioral therapy or dialectic behavior therapy. They have books on it and workbooks on it that you can read through that.
It really helps your mind answer or like overcome some of those challenges with the confidence or things you might be shy about or upset about, or, any of your feelings, how to manage emotions.
Libby: Yeah how long have you been doing that
Toby: I did that for about Three years, two and a half to three years.
And it really helps you know, understand yourself. And once you understand yourself and how to manage your different feelings it can help to with. Work, certainly, because I definitely use some of the techniques that they're using.
Libby: Yeah, great practical tip that I think our listeners can definitely check out, at least even just to fully understand what that means and if you have any resources available, at least even just reading a book on it.
Right?
Toby: They have on Amazon. They have some of the workbooks put out
Libby: yeah, and that's practical, right? Because you're not just reading, you're actually going through the exercises. So I like the workbooks versus just, like, reading information and not knowing how to [00:22:00] apply it specifically.
All right. My last question today. This has been an absolute pleasure to have some time with you, Toby. So thank you for taking time out of your schedule. Speaking of time, time management, in addition to discussing mindset is always a topic that comes up with our community and our guests. So in order to avoid burnout and manage the multiple responsibilities that you do when we've got children, how do you balance it and what helps you stay productive and avoid burnout while managing a thriving business and family?
Toby: Yeah. So that one, especially my kids, most of them are either in college or out of the house. So I'm over there with one kid left, but I know when my kids were younger, it was definitely tough to manage it.
I definitely had some help there. But like I do play competitive tennis, so that's a focus that I do a captain, a few teams. So I definitely like spend about four to five, if not more days a week playing. And I do my Pilates and I work out. So, and I have four rescue dogs because that's like, just what I love.
They're actually my [00:23:00] office mates since I don't have human office mates, but you know, I make sure to have things that I love in my life and continue to do so. there's certain times that I ask for. Assignments between the holiday season. I ask any editors to put my assignments before or after.
So I can have a full two weeks off now. And I've learned that over time. Cause I'm like, I don't even want to take on one article. I want nothing. So I can literally do whatever I want. And then July usually is like my second vacation that I take. Articles don't have a timeline. You can tell your editors, like, I don't want to be assigned
but I do try to say like this day of the weekend or, you know, a whole weekend, I'm not going to work. I really like this past weekend. I did very little. And I spent time with my family. So I try to balance that out.
Libby: Great practical tips that you shared in terms of how you see the times that are slower in your in your business and how you're able to kind of put the brakes on is what I just heard you say.
I have one other follow up question because I'm a productivity nerd. What is your day to day look like? I mean, I know it can [00:24:00] change, but are you a morning person? Do you have any strict rules about how you start the day writing earlier?
Toby: I'm a morning person. I try to wake up with the sun so I can watch sunrise when I walk my dogs. So it's usually around 6 630. but from there I do a little housework because I work from home and I still have to keep the house. So I do whatever a little bit of housework and then I kind of start my day.
But then sometimes I have, like. PT because they only meet during the week or I do my nails, you know, like I make sure to weave in those things, but I do it like later on in the day, usually. I do try to block out certain days. So I can work all day long without leaving my office. But I have to balance that with some of my other, doctor's appointments.
And so sometimes, fixing the car maintenance, you know, the things you have to do. So, like what I do is when I go with my car maintenance, I went last week, but I know I can work in the back and they have great internet. So I set aside like two hours that I know I can work over there and I bring my computer with me and I tell them I'm at the desk area.
I always try to. [00:25:00] Schedule everything and then scheduling food around that becomes a little challenging too. So meal prep certainly helps or planning out my days or weeks. So it's not a day to day 9 to 5 job at all. And sometimes if I have a tennis match in the middle of the day, because I have a day league in the fall and winter, I work late that day.
So, like, I'll go, I'll come back, take a shower. And then whatever I have to do in the evening, I actually sit back down and work. So it could be 10, 11, 12. Depends on what I did that day.
Libby: And I guess your seasonal training and seasonal competitions can keep life interesting, right?
So it's not always the same year round, I guess.
Toby: The exercise gets out the stress and the tennis itself is actually, it's not just about hitting the ball, but it's about strategy. So I'm using my brain. You don't want to only read and do nutrition. So like I use my brain to do some other like, Oh, where do I place the ball in tennis?
And it's strategy. And that's really important for me to have my brain function in a different capacity.
Libby: Well, thanks for sharing that. One of my most memorable quotes [00:26:00] from an interview. I interviewed Dr. Marion Nestle and she said no appointments or nothing before 1 PM, like only writing. Right? So I will always remember that she had this strict schedule for when she wanted to allow things into her life in terms of managing her day.
And she's got a great body of work and she's really impressive. Yeah. leader in the space of nutrition. So I like hearing about your variety and how you have that flexibility come different things that happen with the seasons of your life and also just the day to day that we all deal with.
And then the practical aspect of, Oh, I have to plan food around that too. Yeah,
Toby: that's totally true. And Dr. Nestle actually was at NYU at the same time I am. And I think I do remember her teaching the later classes because my mom was in one of those classes.
Libby: That's so fun. A woman true to her words. Yeah.
She's amazing. And as are you. So thank you so much for your time. Is there any final words or anything you'd like to leave with the listeners who are interested in everything you have to say today?
Toby: We really need a lot of dietitians out there to stop a lot of the misinformation and give good information out to clients and [00:27:00] the world.
So please do what you can. Get motivated, it's really also good to have another partner, like an R. D. friends because I do everything with Dana Angela. Why we do a lot together.
Libby: Yeah, I couldn't agree more.
Great tactical tips today and reflections. Thank you so much for your time. Toby. Everything will be in the show notes on our website. If you want to find Toby and learn more about her and where you can contact her and find her website. Thanks again.
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